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Talk:Grinder
Preliminary testing The following appear to be grindable: * Three items of the same type and rarity. * Two weapons and a grenade mod of the same rarity. The following appear to be not grindable: * Items of different rarity. (Edit: not so sure now.) * Two weapons and a shield. * A weapon, shield, and grenade mod. --Evil4Zerggin (talk) 11:26, October 14, 2014 (UTC) My own experience: I put in three greens and paid moonstones, I ended up with a green luneshine weapon. Laaame. I'm specifying this specifically to mention the fact that it seems moonstones do not guarantee a step up in rarity. Scbtripwire (talk) 20:18, October 23, 2014 (UTC) My observations: *If at least two of the 3 are of a particular weapon type (assault rifle, pistol, etc), a weapon of that type is produced. Otherwise, the weapon type is random (isn't limited to what was input, eg. an assault rifle, an SMG and a rocket launcher can make a shotgun) *The resulting item's level is the average of the input item levels, rounded down. *VERY annecdotally, based on my gut feeling, I get an improved rarity about 1/3 or 1/4 of the time (without moonstone). *Parts, elements, etc appear to be fully random no matter what the input. I haven't tried testing with three almost identical inputs. Worth noting: At least in my game, the weapons provided in the grind tutorial were: A torgue assault rifle, another tourge rifle identical except for the stock, and a scav rifle identical in parts to the first rifle. I got back a torgue rifle with a stock that matched none of the inputs. So some parts / manufacturer may be related. More testing is needed. Ekimekim (talk) 05:02, October 15, 2014 (UTC) :*Your first observation appears to be correct, or at the very least 2 of an item has a very higher chance of producing that item. I'm assuming for now it will always produce the majority unless someone provides evidence to the contrary. You are also correct that the type of weapon when using three different types is not limited to the types used. I am however wondering if the types used have any influence on the chances of those types, that is if I grind an AR, SMG, and RL am I more likely to get a RL then if I grind a AR, SMG, and Shotty, or are the chances always the same. :*The level does appear to be the average of the input items rounded down. I do wonder however if this holds true for the legendary recipe, the purple re-roll, and for 2+1 recipes. Any confirmation on this would be appreciated. I've heard the legendary is the lower of the two legendary levels, any know if this is true? For now I'm assuming it's lowest of two legendaries, and average for the rest. :*My experience I get improved rarity most of the time without moonstone. Would be nice to find out the ratio. Good thing to look into. : BoredDan (talk) 19:36, October 17, 2014 (UTC) According to reddit, two oranges + one purple produces an orange of the purple's type. Not sure if this holds for lower rarities too. --Evil4Zerggin (talk) 08:49, October 15, 2014 (UTC) :Just some help, I stuck in 3 purple pistols and it wouldn't let me grind them. In my experience the only way to grind is if all three items are blue or lower and exact same types, no mixing or matching. The result is random of either one rarity higher or equal to the ground items.--Lycos Devanos Drop me a line 06:32, October 17, 2014 (UTC) :Its a lock system, Lycos; Its so people don't abuse the Golden Chest and just grind the stuff. InfinitysCross (talk) 06:36, October 17, 2014 (UTC) Recipe List I added a reciped list table with all recipes that I know of. Most of these come from ZiggyD's Compendium but the rest of the information is from personal testing cross referenced with research on forums and reddit. Feel free to change anything, or fix any errors. I wasn't sure on how best to display the information, I put each rarity in it's own category, though I suppose it could be re-done to have one recipe for desired type rarity increase and one for random type. I just didn't know how to display that best where it's easy to decipher. I'm not particularly attached to any of this, I just wanted to get something started. Any input would be appreciated. BoredDan (talk) 17:55, October 17, 2014 (UTC) :nicely done. ty. 19:19, October 17, 2014 (UTC) Things To Test/Add I'm compiling a list of things that need to be tested/discovered and added to this page. Feel free to post any testing results you come up with or information you find on these subjects. Also feel free to mention anything missed here. I figure this page will be an important end game resource as players try to get the best weapons, thus it should be as thourough as possible while remaining consise and easy to understand. So I figure some organization/direction would be nice. BoredDan (talk) 20:07, October 17, 2014 (UTC) I feel that if this takes up too much space somebody should move it to a personal page instead of the talk page... InfinitysCross (talk) 23:46, October 17, 2014 (UTC) Moved to a blog post at User_blog:BoredDan/Grinder_Page_TODO as per recommendation. BoredDan (talk) 02:57, October 18, 2014 (UTC) Hey I updated the list with some of the results of further testing, as well as some more in the To Add section. Most of the questions answered are in the notes section with some supporting quotes. Feel free to comment on anything I missed or got wrong. --BoredDan (talk) 19:08, October 18, 2014 (UTC) Purple re-roll recipe Not having luck with the 1 Purple + 2 Blues. I'm trying it with a Purple Shotgun that was created by grinding, and no combination of blues is working with it so far (tested both shotguns and mix). AresRC (talk) 23:45, October 17, 2014 (UTC) I'll add a note that this one needs more testing. I've seen some other comments on it around. Have not personally tested this one. BoredDan (talk) 01:14, October 18, 2014 (UTC) This is removed from ZiggyD's Compendium which was the only reason I kept it on there with conflicting reports. As such I've removed it from the list unless I get some evidence to the contrary. BoredDan (talk) 03:37, October 18, 2014 (UTC) Luneshine buffs *Damaging enemies restores (number) O2 List any buffs you come across here for reference, and to help decide if we can stick it in the Grinder's page or a separate page. HybridDragoness (talk) 06:18, October 18, 2014 (UTC) Bonus EXP InfinitysCross (talk) 06:21, October 18, 2014 (UTC) Do we have a range for the Bonus XP buff? The one I tested seemed to be around +2%, rounded down. If you find one, please post results.Cevgar (talk) 21:12, October 24, 2014 (UTC) Update: XP bonus scales with level. Level 10, 1%. Level 20, 2%. etc.Cevgar (talk) 15:09, November 18, 2014 (UTC) Moonstone Cost Further testing it seems that moonstone cost is not as simple as previously thought. It seems to be recipe dependant. I've done some tests using blues (L4 Laser, L11 Shotgun, L11 Assault Rifle, L13 Assault Rifle, L13 Pistol, L13 SMG) and I get VERY different numbers depending on if I did 2 AR + Other or 3 Different Types. My results are as follows: *Random Recipe (3 Different Types) **(11, 11, 4) -> 19 moonstone **(13, 11, 4) -> 21 moonstone **(11, 13, 4) -> 22 moonstone **(13, 11, 11) -> 26 moonstone **(13, 13, 11) -> 27 moonstone **(13, 13, 13) -> 29 moonstone *AR Recipe (2 AR + 1 Other) **(13, 11, 4) -> 9 moonstone **(13, 11, 11) -> 11 moonstone **(13, 13, 11) -> 12 moonstone Best I can make of these results is that in the formula + L2 + L3) * M, M is based on the recipe. I also have a sneaking suspision that + L2 + L3) * M is rounded down as I have found it easier to find nicer numbers when rounding down. This would also be consistent with how weapon level is determined. I also find it easier to use formulas based of sum of levels rather then output level as it seems more consistently related to data, and the legendary recipe is always equal to the sum of the levels (aka M = 1.0). --BoredDan (talk) 22:42, October 18, 2014 (UTC) Item recipes The tables item section needs fixing up. The way it reads now claims you can put two of one item plus an extra item, for example two shields and an Oz Kit, however I have tried various different mixtures of the items listed and none work, only 3 of the same type of item works. Can anyone confirm a recipe involving two of one item and a third as a different one?--Lycos Devanos Drop me a line 02:03, October 19, 2014 (UTC) Ooops, my bad. Copy pasting and all I forgot to make appropriate edits. Nice catch. Sorry for the issues, fixing now. --BoredDan (talk) 03:09, October 19, 2014 (UTC) For the chances of getting a higher rarity item for each grind without using moonstones, there's some data here Alkymical Gamer (talk) 15:53, April 20, 2016 (UTC) Legendary grinding How does the grinding work for legendary weapons? I'm trying exactly as the table says, purple of desired type plus two legendary weapons and getting no ability to grind. Anyone able to help with this?--Lycos Devanos Drop me a line 03:25, October 22, 2014 (UTC) : Just to confirm, the purple is in fact a weapon? Also make sure the level difference is not to large. Apparently if the level difference is too large items will not grind. --BoredDan (talk) 11:26, October 24, 2014 (UTC) ::Also does not work with certain legendaries, nor certain types of weapons. So far I've learned that Excalibastard doesn't work, and Railguns and beams do not seem to work.--Lycos Devanos Drop me a line 12:28, October 24, 2014 (UTC) ::::As of update 1.0.2, the Excalibastard can be obtained from the Grinder (see below). I also did obtain The ZX-1 legendary Dahl laser from a 2+1 recipe using 2 legendary Flakker shotguns (was testing recipes with cloned weapons), a purple laser (sorry can't remenber the laser's details) and moonstones. The ZX-1 also had a luneshine buff of 1 O2 unit per enemie damaged. The Flakker was obtained from grinding 3 purple shotguns with moonstone a few grinds before. I plan on trying to clone and grind two ZX-1 with a purple laser and a Flakker, ZX-1 and purple laser, all with moonstone and report the output results. Daiwamaster (talk) 00:35, January 7, 2015 (UTC) Certain Claptastic Voyage DLC Legendary items will not allow Moonstone Grinding(w/1 purple), can someone confirm this? Could not get Thunderfire or Luck Cannon to grind with Moonstone option with purple weapon (even with one non Claptastic Legendary). --Faldar (talk) 02:46, April 14, 2015 (UTC) Master Chef BAR to max this out it says you need 34 Recipes total, I current have 27. what are all of the Recipes? BTHR Zero X Capcom Moderator 04:22, October 22, 2014 (UTC) : 34 makes perfect sense if you work it out. There are 3 recipes per the four items (shields, oz kits, class mods, nade mods) for 12, plus 1 legendary weapon recipe, plus 3 2 and 1 recipes, plus 3 random recipes, plus 5 conversion recipes times three rarity levels (white, green, and blue base) for 15. We get 12 + 1 + 3 + 3 + 15 = 34. If someone can confirm this is correct we can make a note of it on the page. --BoredDan (talk) 11:24, October 24, 2014 (UTC) :: After doing some tests on a Fresh Character and Gibbing the Weapons to match it, I can confirm the following are all 34 Recipes BTHR Zero X Capcom Moderator 16:32, October 29, 2014 (UTC) Basic Weapons *Green Weapon - 2 White weapons of desired type + 1 additional White random weapon *Blue Weapon - 2 Green weapons of desired type + 1 additional Green random weapon *Purple Weapon - 2 Blue weapons of desired type + 1 additional Blue random weapon *Legendary Weapon - 1 Purple weapon of desired type + 2 additional Legendary random weapons Random Weapons *Green Weapon - 3 White weapons of different types *Blue Weapon - 3 Green weapons of different types *Purple Weapon - 3 Blue weapons of different types Assault Rifle *1 SMG + 1 Sniper Rifle + 1 Shield, All White *1 SMG + 1 Sniper Rifle + 1 Shield, All Green *1 SMG + 1 Sniper Rifle + 1 Shield, All Blue Rocket Launcher *2 weapons + 1 Grenade Mod, All White *2 weapons + 1 Grenade Mod, All Green *2 weapons + 1 Grenade Mod, All Blue Shotgun *1 Pistol + 1 SMG + 1 Shield, All White *1 Pistol + 1 SMG + 1 Shield, All Green *1 Pistol + 1 SMG + 1 Shield, All Blue SMG *1 Assault Rifle + 1 Pistol+ 1 Shield, All White *1 Assault Rifle + 1 Pistol+ 1 Shield, All Green *1 Assault Rifle + 1 Pistol+ 1 Shield, All Blue Sniper Rifle *1 Assault Rifle + 1 Shotgun + 1 Shield, All White *1 Assault Rifle + 1 Shotgun + 1 Shield, All Green *1 Assault Rifle + 1 Shotgun + 1 Shield, All Blue Oz Kits *Any 3 Oz Kits, All White *Any 3 Oz Kits, All Green *Any 3 Oz Kits, All Blue Shields *Any 3 Shields, All White *Any 3 Shields, All Green *Any 3 Shields, All Blue Class Mods *Any 3 Class Mods, All White *Any 3 Class Mods, All Green *Any 3 Class Mods, All Blue Grenade Mods *Any 3 Grenade Mods, All White *Any 3 Grenade Mods, All Green *Any 3 Grenade Mods, All Blue Grinding lasers Lasers don't follow the 2+1 rule for grinding. I ground 3 green lasers (with moonstone), got a blue rocket launcher. I ground 2 green lasers and a pistol (with moonstone), got a blue rocket launcher. I ground 2 green lasers and a sniper rifle (with moonstone), got a blue pistol. The 2+1 has worked with the white lasers, though. Kuni Sohiyachi (talk) 21:33, October 23, 2014 (UTC) Can anyone else confirms this? I haven't had this happen to my recolection. --BoredDan (talk) 11:24, October 24, 2014 (UTC) :I've had the 2 plus 1 rule work for lasers for me, regardless of the rarity. Be warned, not to base choices on appearance, some lasers appear similar to other weapons. Always make sure to follow the name, Blaster, Beam, Railgun or Splitter.--Lycos Devanos Drop me a line 12:28, October 24, 2014 (UTC) Yes, I know what a laser is, and it wasn't another type of gun on accident. I'll see if I can find several lasers to throw away on this to record the results with a video. It was particularly frustrating because at least two of those lasers were railguns that I had been using, but was hoping for a blue laser upgrade. Kuni Sohiyachi (talk) 22:47, October 24, 2014 (UTC) Had this happen to me. 2 to 1 rule for lasers: Lasers must be of the same type (possibly even the same manufacturer). For example, two beams and a sniper. A beam, a splitter and a blaster will result in a random weapon. Correction: Lasers are simply bugged. Tried three identical (gibbs duplicated) green railguns and got an assault rifle. Cevgar (talk) 15:39, October 26, 2014 (UTC) Just had it happen again. Two green Beams and a green assault rifle, plus moonstone, got a blue pistol. So far, white lasers seem to follow the 2+1 rule, but not green. Haven't tried it with blue lasers yet. Quit without save, did the grind without moonstone. Got a green laser, beam type. Quit without save, did the same grind, no moonstone, got a blue laser, blaster type. There certainly seems to be quite a lot of randomness even with the same input. Kuni Sohiyachi (talk) 04:09, October 27, 2014 (UTC) Nothing working? Am I missing something here? I've grinded every recipe on the page except for the legendary weapon, and the game tells me I only have two recipes. It's kind of frustrating and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. For the record, I've grinded shields and class mods as well, not just the weapons. Ten Foot Bunny (talk) 02:12, October 25, 2014 (UTC) :This may be a glitch. I have all the recipes and didnt use the table to do so, just trial and error. The game is new and has some glitches I have noticed already, so it may need a patch. Have you tried reporting this to the Gearbox Forums as well. Might get some answers there or at least make them aware of a possible issue. -- 02:32, October 25, 2014 (UTC) Excalibastard from Grinder (1.0.2 Update) Just signed up because I noticed that on the Excalibastard and Grinder pages, it says that the Excalibastard can not be obtained from the Grinder. I believe that was changed under the latest update, because I have now goten two of them this last week or so. While it is possilbe that someone could cheat to make this happen, I have not done so (take that for what you will). I simply spent all week, grinding every purple item I can across be it from drops, chests, loot chest in Concordia or found in a vending machine. I accidentally got it once before, but not realizing this was listed as impossible, didn't bother with screencapping it. After I found out though, I spent time trying to reproduce it. Three purple lasers CAN give out an Excalibastard. If anyone else can reproduce this, please contribute your proof. I'd like to see if this is intentional, or merely a bug that slipped by the last update somehow. : --- : Can anyone say whether the above has ever been confirmed? This is the only reference to getting an Excalibastard from the Grinder I can find on-line, it's pretty old, and there have been several updates affecting the grinder since then. Thanks! : Alkymical Gamer (talk) 15:49, April 5, 2016 (UTC) ::: Somebody posted an image getting one last November. I don't think the patch notes mention it, but it's something to look into. ::: Gulfwulf (talk) 17:30, April 5, 2016 (UTC) Ungrindable items Curiously, I can grind a new-finish Hyperion purple-rarity laser (black/red/yellow), but not an old-finish one (maroon). The cryo weapons given by Dr Spara at the end of Rocket Surgery also cannot be fed to the Grinder. Perhaps they're tagged internally as mission weapons? Need to examine one in Gibbed the next time I'm through that mission. Any others? Dämmerung 18:35, November 30, 2014 (UTC) You can grind glitch weapons! Yep, you read that right. If you put 3 Glitch weapons into the grinder you'll get a random Glitch weapon in return. Can anybody confirm if this is just a copy-paste of the 3 Purple items recipe and if we can get Glitch Legendaries from this recipe, or if they can be used as a substitute for the 2 Purples and 1 Legendary recipe? Eddmario (talk) 02:44, March 26, 2015 (UTC) Money making via grinder? A thought occured to me about grinding, weapons in particular. Is the outcome of the grind (as long as you get a higher-level weapon) more valuable than the sum of its parts? Seeing as you input three items, I'm guessing the answer is no, but I wanted to ask anyway. I'll be on my console later tonight, so I may be able to answer my own question then, if no one else does. SnowWolf75 (talk) 17:39, April 3, 2015 (UTC) Random or "correct" class mod? The recipe list and following notes claimed that grinding three class mods would produce a mod for a random class and also that it would produce a mod for the current class only. In my experience, the latter is always true, so I cleaned up the ambiguity. Does anyone know differently? Did this change with some update, perhaps? TheNicestGuy (talk) 21:30, May 18, 2015 (UTC) : From what I remember it's always the class that's used. So if you grind three Clappy mods, you'll get a Clappy mod. If you grind three random mods, I think you'll get a random one in return. It's been awhile since I've used the grinder, but I'm pretty sure that was my experience with it. : Gulfwulf (talk) 17:32, April 5, 2016 (UTC) Legendaries from Purple only Soo I just got the ZX-1 legendary from grinding two purple lasers and one other purple. Means there is a chance to get a legendary from purple weapons. Can someone add chances, please? :) Not where ZainlessBrombie (talk) 15:23, August 29, 2016 (UTC) : Yes, it is indeed possible. There's a summary here: : https://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/t/grinder-success-rate-for-non-moonstone-grinds/74747 : Alkymical Gamer (talk) 17:23, August 29, 2016 (UTC) :: I'm impressed! :) :: gonna add those tomorrow or something if you don't mind ZainlessBrombie (talk) 19:20, August 29, 2016 (UTC) : I'd suggest maybe editing to use "low" "moderate" "even" "good" etc for the "chance", and just providing a link. The observed % are still varying slightly, especially for 3 x purples. I'm pretty sure there's no difference in success rates between 3 of a kind, 2+1, 1 of each though. : Alkymical Gamer (talk) 19:40, August 29, 2016 (UTC) : We could say that it's e.g. ~5% or we just say <6% : ZainlessBrombie (talk) 14:09, August 30, 2016 (UTC)